Dutch harmonie weather model



  • Hi,

    The Netherlands have a free available high resolution weather model called Harmonie. It has a 2.5km resolution with 1 hour steps and refreshes every 6 hours.
    It would be a great addition to windy if this model was added to the list.

    https://data.knmi.nl/datasets/harmonie_arome_cy40_p3/0.2?q=Grib&dtstart=2020-06-13T10:07Z&dtend=2020-06-14T10:07Z

    Tjebbe



  • Hi @tjebbe,

    The link to the KNMI data share you provided is to the 5.5km Europe version of HARMONIE, not to the 2.5km Dutch version. The 2.5km is the correct one, and can be found here.

    Adding HARMONIE would change the game for Windy in the Netherlands from medium range to short range. I have elaborated a bit in another post, cross-link for reference here.

    P.S. I've answered this in a couple other posts as well, so I'm sorry for the redundancy, but just to be sure that the correct model is implemented!

    Bastiaan


  • Sailor Moderator

    @BastiaanvonM said in Dutch harmonie weather model:

    HARMONIE would change the game for Windy in the Netherlands from medium range to short range

    @tjebbe

    On Windy you have already AROME available for Netherlands as short range model...
    You can say that there are differences between AROME and HARMONIE-AROME, probably same as for all models in the Aladin Consortium whose models are based on ALADIN - ALARO / AROME models from Météo France. Imagine that each of the member countries of this consortium requests their own model...

    D30348DD-3134-4DC9-BD2C-1E14A1FD9C0C.jpeg

    And the same kind of consortium exists with the COSMO model from the German DWD
    http://www.cosmo-model.org



  • Hi @idefix37,

    There is a reason national institutes optimise their models; it greatly improves regional forecasts. I honestly do not believe it is useful to point out that other models can do short range as well if in a practical sense no one believes their outcome. In the Netherlands AROME is not a reasonable short range prediction model, and HARMONIE is. The added benefit is that it is available for free and that many other countries use it so there might be portability afterwards (see my other posts about this). The same might be true for German models; it might not be as bleak as the map suggests for many countries.

    If Windy wants to do short range, at least for the Netherlands the way to go is HARMONIE. I understand that implementing it is a cost-benefit analysis. But let's not spin the discussion to 'AROME is good enough'.

    Bastiaan



  • Also, I think replies with maps like this create confusion about the usefulness of regional short range models. So to clarify a bit:

    1. AROME is really good, for France.
    2. Some might understand that all the models on the map are basically the same with minor tweaks here and there, and that one of them (AROME) isn't quite different from another (HARMONIE-AROME). This is untrue. The map is historical and orginisational rather than consequential. For example, HARMONIE-AROME and AROME are very different models, see e.g. Bengtsson et al.. Importantly, it's also the boundary conditions and initialisation that may (and do) make forcasts vastly different between these models.

    Again, I do understand that adding HARMONIE to Windy is a choice between effort and number of users from the Netherlands or any other country that uses HARMONIE. But I think it would be super cool if we could get the discussion beyond 'some other model tries to do this as well' and talk about actual quality.

    Best wishes,

    Bastiaan



  • @BastiaanvonM Fully agree to add it. Seems like minor work for Windy and a real selling point for all Dutch sailors. Forcast for tomorrow shows quite some differences around Markermeer (at least).



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