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    Wind arrows direction

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    • S
      svSecondChance
      last edited by

      Why are the wind arrows backwards? They show the way the wind is blowing, not where the wind is coming from as is normal. This continues to confuse me. Is there a setting to change this on my computer?

      idefix37I 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
      • MarienkaM
        Marienka
        last edited by

        Hi @svSecondChance , can you please send us a screenshot of the situation? Also what device + OS are you talking about? Thank you.

        Best wishes
        ~ Marie

        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
        • idefix37I
          idefix37 Sailor Moderator @svSecondChance
          last edited by idefix37

          @svsecondchance
          That’s absolutely normal. The arrows are in the same direction of the « particule animation ». In the conventional way to show the wind direction i.e. with the arrows type called « wind barbs », these arrows are also in the same direction of the wind flow and not from where it come.

          0_1544106629105_ED923754-99CC-413F-B1A9-66A87389A329.jpeg

          xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 4
          • xiyaklX
            xiyakl @idefix37
            last edited by xiyakl

            @idefix37
            Sorry but this last response is utterly incorrect, and the barbs example image given has been completely misconstrued by the author.
            I came across this thread trying to find anyone who'd raised the issue before, having been a bit confounded by it myself.
            @svsecondchance is right, Windy.com vanes are 180° out of phase; @idefix37 is very wrong, vanes_always_point into the direction of flow, this is a convention since first use of the wind rose. Anyone who's ever sailed beyond passive crewing could not confuse the rule for reading wind barbs, especially given the powerful feedback even a motor launch gives from actual winds.
            I think the mistake here is confusing vectors for vanes. On a chart displaying vectors there are arrows, yes. N.B. however, vector arrows have a set form, and representing a vector they convey direction and magnitude, i.e. velocity.
            For Windy.com to correctly display winds using arrows pointed along flow direction would require adhering to the international conventions for displaying meteorological data, which are published by WMO, in other words, thin arrows with relative velocities represented by center line length.
            Note also, vector maps have equidistant data plots. Anything with direction display set to station locations is not a vector chart.
            It's just a hokey idiosyncracy given the app/site is a toy, but it's wrong and as such, should be fixed.
            Showing colleagues the app, everyone points out this as the first deficiency they notice.
            It's a bit surprising that there could be any diversity of views on something so elementary as the global standard for representing wind data, but as we all know there's really no limit to how wrong each of us will be about things at various times of the day.
            The arrow mixup should be fixed pronto. It's not hard, just reverse/change the symbol. If anyone needs help with the coding my neighbour's 12yr old can do it, I'm pretty sure.
            I bet, though, the issue is well known, but leadership paralysis set in at the '..but what will users do when the symbols they're used to suddenly reverse polarity?'. I say this after finding other discussions about wind direction issues here, where people fear users might confuse 300° for 300°F (I'm not joking, just search this forum).

            xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
            • xiyaklX
              xiyakl @xiyakl
              last edited by xiyakl

              @xiyakl
              BTW, here's the wind barb image from NOAA, reflecting WMO standard (https://www.wpc.ncep.noaa.gov/html/stationplot.shtml), which an earlier author posted as explanatory. I think this is the source of earlier confusion. Note the text ('outer' is relative to station position, in other words, the foot of the barb is at the station, the barb points 'out' into the wind, not along) above the image reads:

              "Wind is plotted in increments of 5 knots (kts), with the outer end of the symbol pointing toward the direction from which the wind is blowing. The wind speed is determined by adding up the total of flags, lines, and half-lines, each of which have the following individual values:

              Flag: 50 kts
              Line: 10 kts
              Half-Line: 5 kts

              If there is only a circle depicted over the station with no wind symbol present, the wind is calm. Below are some sample wind symbols:"

              alt text

              idefix37I 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • idefix37I
                idefix37 Sailor Moderator @xiyakl
                last edited by idefix37

                @xiyakl
                You said that the « last response is utterly incorrect, and the barbs example image given has been completely misconstrued by the author ». Sorry to say that you are wrong!
                And be sure that I use to « sail beyond passive crewing » and that I do « not confuse the rule for reading wind barbs ».
                Here is a map using the traditional way of showing wind direction around a low in the north hemisphere.

                89E9F311-7ADD-4D8C-A8A6-A5F2A385187A.jpeg

                Compare it with the way that Windy show the wind flow around a cyclone. For example today near the Azores archipelago.

                C686F10E-FFF8-4394-87FC-79B82BE9BC17.jpeg

                There is no reason to change the « animated particles » on Windy. This should be really crazy to do it !

                xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                • xiyaklX
                  xiyakl @idefix37
                  last edited by xiyakl

                  43.gif/84a928a8-3389-4690-8453-005a9c15f906?t=1369746553556)
                  ..or:
                  alt text
                  ..or:
                  alt text
                  ..or, well, maybe that's enough.

                  idefix37I Gkikas LGPZG 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • idefix37I
                    idefix37 Sailor Moderator @xiyakl
                    last edited by idefix37

                    @xiyakl
                    Instead of long explanation you'd better show a screenshot of what you want to explain.
                    The arrows shown at weather stations for the observed wind show the same conventional direction as the wind forecast which is displayed by the « animated particles ».

                    Then, here is the way how the wind direction is shown at a station for a WSW Wind:

                    EF1F1F9B-4463-4634-9D75-F5C70BD7A360.jpeg

                    And how Windy figure a wind with the same direction:

                    189BC270-E951-434E-842C-C6D47028A5BF.jpeg

                    For me these two ways to show the wind direction are absolutely consistent.

                    xiyaklX 2 Replies Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • Gkikas LGPZG
                      Gkikas LGPZ Moderator Meteorologist @xiyakl
                      last edited by

                      @xiyakl
                      What do you think is the wind direction over North Sea (today) ?
                      wind 23 Feb 2019.jpg

                      xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                      • xiyaklX
                        xiyakl @Gkikas LGPZ
                        last edited by

                        This post is deleted!
                        ? 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                        • xiyaklX
                          xiyakl @idefix37
                          last edited by

                          @idefix37
                          Makes us, formally speaking, polar opposites ha

                          1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                          • ?
                            A Former User @xiyakl
                            last edited by

                            @xiyakl

                            You could just look up the Doppler.

                            xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                            • xiyaklX
                              xiyakl @A Former User
                              last edited by

                              @WXcycles
                              Lols

                              1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                              • xiyaklX
                                xiyakl @idefix37
                                last edited by

                                @idefix37
                                You do understand the pennants go to windward, right? The little circle isn't the head of an arrow or something like that.

                                idefix37I 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                • idefix37I
                                  idefix37 Sailor Moderator @xiyakl
                                  last edited by idefix37

                                  @xiyakl
                                  Yes, exactly, you must imagine an arrowhead in the circle. The old drawings of windbarbs were showing an arrowhead, as this first french isobaric map from 1863.

                                  1F1E7E9F-A618-4C13-8AE7-8A107B2AD359.jpeg

                                  Then a circle has been used together with the arrowhead, as this American map from 1888.

                                  31B4511F-1F4A-4636-A976-D498F5FD69D8.jpeg

                                  Finally the drawing has been simplified and the arrowhead has disappeared. But you must remember that the « windbarb » symbol is based on an arrow drawing with an arrowhead and feathers or feather barbs at the back.

                                  790EA149-EE75-4A42-BEB9-57CA84FBFF56.jpeg

                                  So you may consider that the arrowhead is no longer used to show the direction of wind by official weather offices according to WMO recommendations, but is still used on Windy app. For a west wind, blowing from the West, the arrowhead is oriented toward the East ! The direction of a west wind is NEVER given by an arrow pointing to the West, even if the wind bearing is 270° on the wind rose. So the way how Windy app represents the observed wind direction is correct and is not «180° out of phase » as you said.

                                  OK, Mate? Is it clear for you now? So you may explain to your colleagues why the way how Windy app figures wind direction at weather stations is correct.

                                  xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 3
                                  • xiyaklX
                                    xiyakl @idefix37
                                    last edited by xiyakl

                                    @idefix37
                                    Well, really you're so way off, beyond help.
                                    I like the old charts you found on Google, nice bit of research. I think you nailed it.
                                    In case we end up discussing chemistry I decided to play the trump card early, because I've got this, which by its vintage has to evidence of something, right?
                                    alt text
                                    There's such a list of reasons as to how come your wrong, but on casual examination apparently right, that there not time in a productive day.
                                    I would say though, you got a bunch of pilots laughing our asses off.
                                    I was thinking to donate something useful to this outfit, but after seeing the (now shrouded) unethical conduct in 2017, and the determination to stay wrong/in-toytown, the taste seems all gone.
                                    The right thing to do if so obvious, but somehow invisible for some because operating in a standardised manner is some kind of anathema.
                                    The little arrows you're so keenly advocating for are just hokey little things someone has just made up in their head.
                                    It's a toy and something like this it's diagnostic.
                                    Now here's a question for you. Given we are at an impasse, do you need to have the last word? I'd say I've got money on it, but nobody here will bet against.

                                    xiyaklX 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                    • xiyaklX
                                      xiyakl @xiyakl
                                      last edited by

                                      This post is deleted!
                                      1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                                      • siimS
                                        siim
                                        last edited by

                                        @xiyakl must be trolling here.

                                        For interactive data rich map Windy has made good choice with wind arrows.

                                        1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 1
                                        • Tomber42T
                                          Tomber42 Moderator
                                          last edited by Tomber42

                                          Here another explanation how to read wind barbs
                                          http://weather.rap.ucar.edu/info/about_windbarb.html

                                          Greetings from Tomber

                                          RodnetR 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 2
                                          • RodnetR
                                            Rodnet @Tomber42
                                            last edited by Rodnet

                                            @Tomber42 hi Tomber, on my windy app, the forecast is showing a barb about half the length of all the other barbs with a line about half the length of the 5knt line, does that mean less than 5knt
                                            Thank you

                                            Gkikas LGPZG 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
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