@illili You make some vey good points. I did notice even when Hyperlocal was using Dark Sky that wind forecasts were subject to change up to the last minute.

I also noticed that if a windy day showed up in the 10-day and stayed windy as it got closer, but then changed to low wind in the last 48 hours, that day would most likely be high wind with an inacccurate forecast or the forecast would go way up at the last minute.

I think it was also true in reverse. If the wind and gust forecasts went way up at the last minute then it probably would be windy but not as much as forecasted.

My goal is to get a rough idea of the forecast to know which days are worth checking detailed forecasts for and which days that would be a waste of time.

@illili when you say visual representations do you mean the map or the graphics that are overlaid with the data chart at the bottom of the screen?

The map is great for seeing wind data represented spatially but not so great when I'm just trying to see the weather forecast in one spot.

I'm thinking about just looking for any general purpose weather app that includes wind gusts (there might not be very many) and has decent graphs of temperature, wind gust and precipitation forecasts.

I need something to tell me at a glance whether or not to open Windy because while Windy has the data I need to see it's just too cumbersome to use. Maybe I was spoiled with Hyperlocal Weather while it still used Dark Sky.

@illili You're right, that view does show the data I need and it seems to be the closest Windy can get to Hyperlocal Weather's presentation. It's still hard to use tho, being so tiny with most of the screen wasted on the useless map. Time will tell if I can get used to Windy's format and accurately determine when it's worth examining route forecasts.

I think Flowx is the closest I've found to Hyperlocal's wind graphs so far. It has the wind with wind gust overlay. They're ugly, hard to read graphs, but at least they're graphs.

And I still don't get the obsession with maps. They're useless for biking or point forecasts. Are there really that many people with planes and boats?

If ditching every app with a non-hideable map wouldn't leave me with no options at all I would do it.

@illili I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect the wind not to whistle around my helmet (ie, it's >18 mph) when the forecasted gusts are 10 mph or less.

Since I've consistently had problems like that for over two years now I'm starting to conclude that forecasts are just inaccurate to the point of being useless around here and all I can do is move.

If nine out of ten forecast models are wrong for this area, and those were created by people who dedicate their lives to studying weather, what are the odds that I'm going to be able to sort out some kind of accurate forecast based on applying correction factors to the models that are wrong. I used to think that might be possible but now that I've watched long enough to see that all the forecast models are wrong by varying amounts it doesn't seem even worth trying.

@Suty It happens all the time.

Playing with it a bit more it appears that the problem is that the slider runs on a continuous time scale but the time display is truncated to the hour.

They should match (both continuous or both discrete) so that the time displayed is the actual start time for the conditions displayed.

If I start with the cursor at 6 am and scroll forward to 7 am I see the first screenshot. If I start at 8 am and scroll backwards to 7 am I see the 2nd screenshot.

So which is it gonna be?

I've noticed this before: that by scrolling around I can get the app to show me different data for the same route and departure day/time. I just don't know why you would design it that way. It's really annoying.

It's also weird how the location dot on the map is off the route. I think it was there before I switched routes and I haven't clicked on the graph since then. I just clicked the graph in a few places and now I have three location dots showing at the same time.

I recently saw on TV a preying mantis eat a bird 3x it's weight. I think the bugs in your app might be preying mantises.

@Filip_K I just clicked on "nearest weather stations" by accident. If gusts were listed there it would be exactly what I was looking for when I was trying to use weather stations: a way to view the most current gust readings from all nearby weather stations on one screen.

I find it hard to believe that there's currently no way to do that but I certainly haven't been able to find one. Again, Windy has a chance to be the first/only with this feature.

The models vary widely in my area. I've been advised to compare the models and over time develop a feel for which models are more accurate in this location.

As a human, I refuse to do easily automated computational tasks in my head. Comparing historical data from all the weather stations around here with what was forecasted by the various forecast models at those precise spots and then ranking them by accuracy clearly qualifies.

I'm not aware of any weather sites/apps that choose a forecast model for the user based on historical accuracy of the model's data compared to that from the closest weather station. Some might do this behind the scenes but I haven't seen any that disclose that.

Why not? It seems like which forecast model to show the user would be one of the most fundamental questions to answer when you're designing a weather site/app.

I suspect this hasn't been done because most people in most areas don't see the massive discrepancies I'm seeing between the gusts forecasted by different models. I also suspect that other weather parameters like temperature and precipitation must not vary as much between the models, and since that's all most people usually care about, it doesn't really matter which model is shown most of the time.

But the fact remains that there are people who would benefit from knowing the historical accuracy of each forecast model for their exact location. If this feature was added to Windy it might be the first and only app that has it.

If such a thing does exist and I just missed it please post a link.

@Filip_K I just tried that using the app and it does seem to work. I can see the weather stations around here. They're named incorrectly, which I can get over, but Windy also doesn't display any gust information on the map or in the details for the station. I don't see gusts anywhere, even for weather stations I know provide gust readings like the one the CO Department of Transportation has at the i76-Hwy 385 overpass (CO0034 I think).

Google's weather forecast omits gusts and it sent me on dozens of terrible bike rides in high gusty wind before I realized that a wind forecast without gust information is basically useless around here.

I didn't notice any weather stations that I know exist and are online missing from Windy's map, so it might actually be the most complete map I've seen. If gust information was added, especially if it was added to the map in a way that doesn't force the user to click or mouse-over each station to see the gust info, Windy would be the most complete source of weather station data in NE Colorado that I'm aware of.

@Filip_K I tried using weather stations for a while. There are a lot out here, which is good since it takes a lot more stations to accurately indicate wind than for things like temperature and precipitation.

The problem was that many of them aren't online and there isn't one site/way to see them all easily. I was having to manually load three different websites and click on each weather station to see current gusts, and it still didn't seem very accurate, even a couple miles from the station. Of course that's all based on my wild guesses since I don't have a way to actually measure the wind.

I spent some time looking for a website/app that could display a custom list of weather stations with their gust data in an easy to read format but I never found one so I just gave up on the idea of weather stations.

If it's gonna be this much hassle I might as well do it with forecasts. I'm currently having to check Hyperlocal, Flowx and Windy, plus I've got windfinder.com and windalert.com open to remind me to check if I can make them useful somehow.

It looks like it's gonna be another crappy week out here, ruined by high gusts every single day.

@illili The whistling around the helmet doesn't bother me. I actually like the fact that it whistles because that's the only evidence I have that proves the wind isn't below 11 mph as forecasted, and that I really am seeing wind resistance four (or more) times higher than normal.

I'm not in the mountains. This is the edge of the great plains. The valley I live in is about 350 feet deep on the south (highest) side and about 5 or 6 miles wide. The "plattaeus" on either side are basically completely flat with some gentle rolling. I suspect that's why we have wind problems. The state highways and county roads are all oriented in the cardinal directions and are completely straight, sometimes for the entire length of the county.

If I was in mountains with winding highways and peaks all around there would be isolated spots were the wind was terrible, but just a few miles later things would change and it could be dead calm. That would be nice. Out here there are times that I have to ride straight into highly variable gusts for over an hour to get home. The headwind is more demoralising but the cross wind gusts are very frustrating and dangerous.

Once again the forecast for today is split. 6 of 8 models in Flowx say low gusts. Hyperlocal says low gusts. Windy's route forecast shows gusts of 16 to 20 mph, and I think my limit is 12 mph. I'll probably go out on the highway just to see which forecast is right. I guess I'd have to buy an anemometer (I returned the one in the picture) and stand out there taking wind readings to really know so I'm limited to guesstimating the speed based on how it feels.

This situation happened on Wednesday and Windy was right. I don't understand how Windy's route forecast using the global model ECMWF is more accurate than the consensus of 6 or 7 other models, multiple of which were designed specifically for the North American continent. Maybe learning which models to trust is what you meant by reading between the lines but I'm just hoping I get to move away from this place long before I get good enough at reading bad forecasts to make accurate go/no-go decisions.

Like I'm stuck using multiple forecast models, I'm also stuck using multiple weather apps to see them. To do it all in Windy I would need gusts in the forecast compare pane, preferably graphed, and an easier way to see the general 10-day weather forecast (temps, rain, sunrise/sunset times, etc).

Also, the widgets in Windy and Flowx could be better. Windy's widget looks more polished but Flowx's are more customizeable (tho still not completely). I was able to adjust the line in the middle of the graph to be my wind threshold, about 12 mph, which was the only way I found to make those graphs legible.

@Wheats Kestrel Instruments look decent. One of the main requirements tho was for the meter to have a threaded hole so I can screw it onto a little photography mounting arm that clamps on my handlebars.

Just over a year ago I actually bought one of those handheld anemometers and mounted it on a bike with that arm. The propeller spun and it seemed to be working but the LCD display was totally illegible in sunlight. I had to crouch and get my chin basically on the handlebars to read it. The display seemed to be about average size.

I could use one that records but then I'd have to somehow merge that data with my speed and direction throughout the ride to see accurate wind readings. I had planned to estimate wind direction and do the vector arithmatic in my head to subtract the bike's speed as displayed on the bike computer. That's why I couldn't use the anemometer with the smartphone app acting as the display, I need to run a bike computer app on the smartphone to know my speed.

The only successful project with an anemometer on a bike that I'm aware of is https://cdacrr.blogspot.com/

It uses a Weatherflow device, either Windmeter or Weathermeter. The app isn't made for wind readings, it's meant to help racers perfect their aerodynamic tuck position. In that position the cyclist's nose is basically touching the handlebars, so tiny text in the app is probably ok. I don't bike like that tho and since CdaCrr is an app I'd be once again stuck with no bike computer or having to use two phones. It doesn't seem likely to work for me so I've been hesitant to buy the hardware I'd need to try it.

I don't know what to do other than give up on validating forecasts. It's really frustrating to ask myself if the wind I'm observing is above, equal to, or below the forecast and not be able to come up with anything better than a wild guess.

I could practice guessing and then measuring wind speeds on foot, but that wouldn't translate to how it feels on a bike at all due to the fact that aerodynamic drag varies with the square of the wind speed (doubling the wind quadruples the drag). I'm often amazed at how I can be getting slammed with horrendous wind on the bike that disappears almost completely when I come to a full stop.

@illili I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect the wind not to whistle around my helmet (ie, it's >18 mph) when the forecasted gusts are 10 mph or less.

Since I've consistently had problems like that for over two years now I'm starting to conclude that forecasts are just inaccurate to the point of being useless around here and all I can do is move.

If nine out of ten forecast models are wrong for this area, and those were created by people who dedicate their lives to studying weather, what are the odds that I'm going to be able to sort out some kind of accurate forecast based on applying correction factors to the models that are wrong. I used to think that might be possible but now that I've watched long enough to see that all the forecast models are wrong by varying amounts it doesn't seem even worth trying.

@illili @Wheats I see how a zoomed out map that can show storm "shape" combined with analysing conditions in the upper atmosphere could be useful to a meteorologist. That's their job after all. It means absolutely nothing to me.

All I want to know is whether or not I can go biking.

I liked the idea of comparing forecasts to get a better idea of what might happen than from using just one forecast, and eventually learning which model(s) is accurate in my area. I tried to do exactly that yesterday afternoon and had terrible results tho.

I think gusts are being added to Windy's forecast compare feature, but for now I used Flowx to compare 8 forecast models that included gusts (for some reason ECMWF has no gust info in Flowx). All but one of the models showed wind gusts below 11 mph. Basically it looked like a great opportunity to bike, so I went for a ride.

Before leaving I checked the route forecast using Windy, leaving it set to the default model (ECMWF I think). That forecast showed gusts of 16 and 17 mph, a definite no-go. I went anyway hoping it would be more like what the other 8 models predicted.

It wasn't. I have no way to validate wind forecasts with actual readings while I'm biking (that's another issue I've wanted to solve but haven't been able to find an anemometer or other method that would work on the bike), but the wind was whistling around my helmet and I've heard that doesn't happen until at least 18 mph.

If I had to estimate the gust speeds 15-20 mph would sound about right, but that's a wild guess just based on how it felt and past rides/forecasts. With turns in the route and lulls in the gusts I would say only 1/3 to 1/2 of the ride was really unpleasant. For a 3 hour ride (my normal route) that means being battered by gusts for over an hour. Plus, a bad cross-wind gust right when a vehicle is passing could literally get me killed.

I don't know what to do. Idiots in other forums have suggested an exercise bike in the past and while that's the stupidest, most irritating suggestion imaginable, it's also the only one that's guaranteed to solve the problem completely, other than maybe moving which I can't do right now. I doubt words can convey how much that pisses me off.